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Who deserves a university education?

Nanyang Polytechnic

I refer to this story on The Straits Times’ Forum: ‘JC students deserve priority‘ written by Lee Beng Tat. In it, the writer argues that polytechnic graduates should not get equal admission considerations into university, as students from junior colleges, who have been preparing for university admission, deserve priority over them.

I CRY BOLLOCKS. BIG, FAT, UGLY BOLLOCKS. YES, IT NEEDS TO BE THAT GRAPHIC.

And I have reasons, too…

Before I begin, perhaps it would be good for me to come clean with my own academic history, so everyone can judge my motives for themselves:

Although I went to SAJC for the first three months before O Level results were released, at the end of the day I went to Nanyang Polytechnic (thus the pimpin’ out of the campus in the photo). Because of various reasons I ended up leaving the diploma in Digital Media Design halfway to move to New Zealand, where I attended first the Waikato Institute of Technology, and then the Victoria University of Wellington. I am now back in Singapore armed with a Bachelor of Media Arts and a Bachelor of Arts (Honours) – First Class (yes I am that nerdy). I have stuck a toe in everything: JC, poly and university.

Now that’s all in the open, let’s take a closer look into the ST Forum piece…

How many 16-year-olds will forgo sexy-sounding courses like communications and finance over subjects like physics, chemistry or mathematics?”
Please give 16-year-olds more credit: they might not be the most mature people out there, but they do have at the very least a basic understanding of their own lives and plans. Even my brother who comes home from school to spend his time conquering Russia in Modern Warfare 2 has an inkling of what to do with his life. By Sec 4, they have had the “your choice and actions will determine your ENTIRE LIFE, get it wrong and you will DIE LONELY AND MISERABLE” speech more than once. (If I remember correctly, this speech begins in Secondary 2, when you undergo streaming for Combined Science/Pure Science.) Very, very few are going to be lured into poly because courses sound “sexy”. If they go into courses like communications and finance, it’s because they are interested and want to go into courses like communications and finance.

Polytechnic graduates cannot have it both ways. They must know the Government spends more to train a polytechnic graduate than a junior college (JC) student. So they cannot expect a second bite of the cherry with the same priority in university admission as JC students who complete two years of school and hold only an A-level certificate.”
Yes, I know the government spends more to train a poly student than a JC student. I also know that poly students pay more fees than JC students. And I also know that poly students don’t get public transport concessions like JC students do. That means: it is more expensive to be a poly student than a JC student. Poly students don’t choose to go to poly because they want the government to spend more money on them; it doesn’t make sense because it would actually cost the student more as well. And sorry, I fail to see why that means that poly students should not be given equal standing to go to university. I mean, is there some sort of quota on how much the government can spend on each individual, and once that quota is reached, that’s too bad?

“Polytechnics pride themselves on hands-on training while JCs arm a student with more in-depth grounding in core subjects to prepare them for university.”
When in SAJC, I studied Economics, History and Literature. You might argue that because I was only in JC for three months it doesn’t count, but I did do the work. I went to the classes, I took down notes, I studied, I took the tests, I did the assignments. I put in the work, just like any other student who wanted to be in JC. But if you came up to me while I was at Vic Uni doing my Honours what JC did to prepare me for university, I would have said without a second’s hesitation: “NOT A DAMN THING.”

You see, my field of study is Film/Media Studies. In my 3+ years of study, I used precisely 0.0% of what I learned in JC. No one in Film/Media Studies gives a damn if you know about market demand and supply, or the UN’s movements during the Korean War, or whether you can write in iambic pentameter. And when you come out of study and enter the film/media industry, employers don’t care about that either. What they do care about: do you know the front from the arse-end of a camera? Do you know how to use Final Cut Studio, or Avid Media Composer? How many productions have you worked on, and are you a team player? JC has nothing to do with it.

“To JC students, university is and has always been their final destination. To poly students, their end point, in Singapore at least, should be their diploma. If they want to go beyond that in Singapore, they should choose the JC route. If they do not qualify, it is not the Government’s fault. Nothing should stop them from pursuing their dream overseas, but they cannot expect greater access to local universities just because it is costlier to study abroad.”
Correct me if I am being overly-sensitive, but what I read into this statement is this: poly students who want to get degrees, GET OUT AND GO AWAY. To which I reply, “Why, do you feel threatened?” Because if you really believe that JC students have “in-depth grounding” and are truly deserving and ready to take on university, then poly students should pose no threat, regardless of whether they have equal priority or not, right?

I was one of the lucky ones; my parents could afford to send me overseas. However, plenty of poly students in Singapore work very hard in their field to achieve excellence, but cannot afford to get an overseas degree. That is why they are looking to enter local universities. If we were truly a meritocratic society (which we love to claim that we are), we would be happy to let these students in, because they have worked hard and should reap the rewards. But what are we doing? Telling them to go overseas if they want to better themselves? And then we wonder why Singapore is experiencing a brain drain? If you’re not only not going to reward me for my hard work, but also tell me that I am not your problem and should just bugger off overseas, then why should I come back?

Everyone knows these days that degrees are more valuable than diplomas. Especially in a society like Singapore, where paper qualifications are practically the be all and end all. However, poly students still choose to go to poly not because they find the courses in poly “sexier”, but because they want to gain valuable skill sets that will help them in their chosen fields, instead of spending two stressed-out years mugging over subjects that might-or-might-not be useful. (From what my A Level-wielding friends have told me, it’s mostly the “might not” part.) In these modern times, no one’s endpoint should be just a diploma. Isn’t this why we are encouraging lifelong learning? Then why are we penalising people and keeping them from further study just because they already have diplomas?

“A place in a good local university is a limited resource and should go to the most deserving; in this case, those who qualify for JC and have consciously decided to take the JC path to prepare themselves for a university education and not a diploma.”
I especially take issue with this statement, because of its tone. Well, the tone of the whole piece is insulting, but especially this statement. It is insulting to suggest that poly students do not deserve a place in a local university, and also to imply that they are undeserving because they have not made the “responsible” life choice of choosing a path that leads to university, as if there is something wrong with choosing not to go to JC. Poly students’ choices are just as informed as JC students’. In fact, from my own experience, some poly students’ choices are made on even more careful thought and consideration than many JC students’. After all, if you have grades good enough to go to JC, it is often easier to just go with the flow and go to JC with the rest of your friends than to actively decide to do something different and go to poly.

To sum up, the writer seems to be fixed in the view that there is only one path in life-with-university: JC. There is no alternative, no room for personal preference and choice. Once again, we see the cookie-cutter ideology: if you don’t fit the mould, it’s not our problem. I’m sorry to say this, but this seems to happen a lot in Singapore. With employment, with homelessness, with education… it seems as if we should all just give up and become clones of each other, so as to ease the situation and solve all problems!

If people are so afraid of poly students getting equal priority to get into university, and want to prevent them from fighting JC students for university admission, then why not allow polytechnics the right to award degrees? It’s not unheard of: the first institution I went to in New Zealand was the Waikato Institute of Technology (or Wintec), which used to be called Waikato Polytech. After the curriculum was modified to include more theory-based courses, the institution was allowed to award degrees to its graduates, while the focus was still on hands-on technical training. In the Moving Image course I did technical camera/lighting/editing training alongside theory papers such as Documentary: A Historical Overview and Audience, Message, Context. It gave me academic knowledge of my field as well as extremely valuable skills that made me industry-ready from the moment I stepped out of the school as a graduate; a great blend of in-depth knowledge and hands-on skills. It even stood me in good stead when I moved to Victoria University; I had production experience, the university Film majors had none. I was the one Honours student who was allowed to miss practical training classes because I was already trained.

“But how can you go from high school straight to getting a degree?” you might protest. My answer: meritocracy. Prospective students would apply for the course, listing their academic history and submitting examples of their written work (or artwork, depending on the course). Local students would also go through an interview process where they met with the tutors and talked about the course and their backgrounds. Those who satisfy the tutors and the academic requirements would be allowed into the course, those who fall short would be asked to apply for a Certificate programme instead, which is a year-long introductory course that prepared students for the degree course by teaching them skills such as academic essay-writing and project work, while still in that student’s chosen field so they still get to follow their own area of interest. When they have got the Certificate, they are able to apply again for the degree course. So no student is really rejected or turned away, but given a chance to study what they want, to the best of their ability. That, friends, is what I call meritocracy. And if it works in New Zealand, why should it not work in Singapore?

I believe that this also ties into productivity. If we start viewing education as a basic right that should be available to everyone, instead of some sort of commodity that we need to pay and fight tooth-and-nail for (ridiculous bidding system for electives, anyone?), more people will start to be able to study exactly what they want and what they love, and by extension, work in jobs they are trained for and really want. If you really love a subject, and spend your university years pursuing your interest, then go into the job industry to work in a field that you really want, then it logically follows that you will work happy, and even better, work well. And TADA!!! Increased productivity! In the end, everyone wins, no?

70 Comments Post a comment
  1. Just wanna say I totally agree with you.

    I was from JC, but my younger sister went to NP Accountancy. And the quota for poly students is 10%, guess what happened? Same as you, she’s now Down Under doing well in her 3 month in Melbourne U. Even though we’re HDB dwellers, my mom’s saved up enough, but things are tight.

    So I super duper agree with you sir/madam :D

    April 15, 2010
    • Glad you agree! And glad that your sister is doing well in Melbourne, I know of quite a few people who have gone there. Most Singaporeans who go overseas seem to end up doing well because we are so used to working so hard and stressing out ALL THE TIME that it’s actually a breeze in overseas study!

      Her experiences in Melbourne will probably prove invaluable, but if she was allowed a spot in a local university it’d be so much easier for your mum! People need to see that this would not only benefit the student, but the entire family unit as well…

      April 15, 2010
  2. You know, as disjointed the poster’s article was, there was a grounding in his views ESPECIALLY if this 10% quota is administered by the unis themselves.

    It means its obvious that if you are from a Poly, your chances of getting into a local U is gonna be slim. Hence all of this dude’s rhetoric.

    The larger problem here is.. why aren’t ALL uni applications be completely grade based? Why a quota at all?

    I’m glad I went a completely whacko route in Malaysia. Straight after high school I got a Diploma, followed by a Higher Diploma and then a UK Degree with Honours (2nd upper) all in the span of less than 3.5 years in a private college. (Couldn’t be bothered fighting for a place in the local Us with the bumiputeras in my homeland – quotas too you see..)

    April 16, 2010
    • Yes, that is probably his point, although it was presented in a way that would get every poly student – regardless of whether they want to go to uni or not – up in arms.

      And you’re right! Why a quota at all? I think comes from the whole perception of education as a commodity, something that needs to be fought for. Perhaps it was made this way in the name of meritocracy, so only the best get in, but I don’t think it’s actually working out that way. In the end this whole quota thing only encourages exclusivity and elitism, not meritocracy.

      April 16, 2010
      • K #

        I am in absolute agreement with this : “In the end this whole quota thing only encourages exclusivity and elitism, not meritocracy.”

        I for one was a JC student just because I made the grade and was able to get into a supposedly “acceptable” JC . It also didn’t help that even my family thinks of poly as a “backtrack” and that JC is the “right way”. Having been really childish in my decisions I blindly listened and followed the flow. But having almost no interest in whatever I was studying in JC eventually meant rock-bottom grades.

        I’m now doing my studies overseas as well(it is really costly!), and I’m glad I was exposed to a culture that doesn’t have such strong stigmas on your education level or your “path” to uni/life.

        Having spent 12 years of my life going through the education system that was so carefully planned out, I have realised that there is one thing that they don’t teach in schools – to think for yourself. I feel that the biggest flaw in the education system is that it doesn’t promote individualism or allow students to think for themselves but instead virtually force them into a long and possibly useless paper chase.

        With the clouds of “good grades” constantly blocking out individual thought, how few opportunities to think are the impressionable young ones presented with in such a culture/ system?

        Finally, I would like to express that I really LOVE the content of your last paragraph. People should think for themselves and know what they want so that they can actually have something that they will happily work for/towards and thus “contribute to society” to the best of their abilities.

        P.S.Thank you for such an AMAZING read.

        April 16, 2010
        • Thank you! I’m glad that there are people who enjoy reading my stuff. :)

          In Singapore many people have just trudged down the beaten path because that is what “they are supposed to do”. In a way although going overseas was very costly, I think it was a very, very positive experience because being in a totally different environment where people have completely different value systems was a breath of fresh air, and the distance allowed me to see more clearly for myself the issues and problems that I have been facing my whole life in Singapore. And I’ve come to the conclusion that it wouldn’t hurt for Singaporeans to stop once in awhile and think about WHY they are doing something, instead of just doing it because it’s what their family, friends, government expects them to do. For example, WHY does a person choose to go to JC? Is it really because he/she thinks it will benefit him/her in university studies? Are the A Level subjects really relevant to his/her ambitions in whichever chosen field? Or is he/she just doing it because that’s what is expected?

          If people could just have a chance to take a step back and question their own decisions, then I believe that there will be more innovation, more creativity and more freedom. Because I believe that very few people would reach the conclusion that they are doing something for no good reason, but still keep doing it. Once they come to such a realisation, there will be a natural and instinctive push to change.

          April 16, 2010
          • K #

            Indeed, it was ONLY after I have been exposed to a different culture that such thinking could actually form.
            If I were still stuck in that system, maybe only a day in the conventional 9 to 5 lifestyle would such thoughts hit me, and probably quite hard considering the time WASTED to get to that regimental point in life.

            April 17, 2010
  3. A. #

    good response. i have to say, the route u took is better than what im doing.
    im one year older than you and i’ve only just finished my 4year course in NUS. and you have two degrees!!
    and i think poly students learn much more valuable and practical stuff than those who take the jc-uni route.
    cheers :)

    April 16, 2010
    • Thank you!

      I think it’s important for more people to see that there is no such as a “set route” in life. Everyone has the right and the power to decide their own lives, and choose their own paths. There is no one formula for success and happiness, but unfortunately it seems to me like the climate in Singapore is such that many people feel like they have no choice.

      April 16, 2010
  4. Jeremy #

    Fantastic reply to a clearly biased article. Still it does paint an ugly picture about the perception of our local society with regards to what we consider “better” education in the form of JC and Poly. It is absurd after so many years that we still rate diplomas as being nothing better than a degree when in other countries, a diploma would earn you as much respect as a degree.

    This elitism has to stop.

    I’ve gone through almost the same route, except having spent 2 years in JC, only to have failed A levels. After finishing my NS, I did my poly and now am in NTU. Have never been more happy to have gone the poly route and regretful to have not chosen it earlier.

    April 16, 2010
    • The culture in Singapore has always been based on a drive for excellence, which is actually very good. Sadly, this whole concept has been skewed and we now seem to spend our time comparing ourselves to others and making judgements freely, which is not at all in the spirit of meritocracy, but small-minded elitism. Instead of embracing difference and variety, we judge those who make different choices and look upon them as “less”.

      Until we can get over this hang-up, it is going to be very difficult for Singapore to truly be a gracious society of first-world thinkers.

      April 16, 2010
  5. Debbie #

    As always, you have excellent insight into things! I am highly irked by how Singaporean children who don’t excel academically (whatever crazy notions of excellence Singaporean society holds anyway) are labelled to be “dumb” – intelligence is not measured by mere academic success.

    Take my neighbours child for example, if she does not ace her PSLE this year and gets herself into a neighbourhood school, it’s as if she’s condemned for life – you just HAVE to be the cream of the crop in order to get out of the mundane rat race that is part of a heartlander’s life in Singapore. They don’t give you second chances (even SOTA takes students in based on their academic results AND their apparent “talent” in the arts, and obviously, we all know that going to ITE means “It’s The End”)

    Well guess what? Too bad if your grades in mainstream school sucks and you’re not the academic type. Worst still if your parents can’t afford to send you abroad/to some swanky international school in Singapore. You will be thumbed down forever by the elitist nature of Singaporean society.

    I try to imagine how my own life would have turned out if my mum didn’t manage to get a job abroad and my family didn’t relocate overseas. The only reason I ever passed secondary school was because I was pretty good at English and the humanities. Science, maths and chinese was a no-go zone for me though…and I only managed to scrape through PSLE and get into a “decent” secondary school because I miraculously got an A on Chinese for PSLE (first and only A I ever received in Chinese throughout my education in Singapore).

    I believe that I would definitely have been a poly kid if I stayed on in Singapore (I left after secondary two). To be honest, I think I was a bit of a late bloomer in terms of academics. It’s not that I’m killing university now, but for someone who isn’t exactly a “clever” Singaporean kid (you know how science and maths is such an important measure in Singaporean education), I’m proud to say that at aged 22, I’m a few months away from getting my Masters in Teaching (and I am not even ruling out another Masters or beyond in the near future).

    And you can only begin to imagine how much my educational experience in both Singapore and abroad have contributed to my wanting to be a teacher, and my teaching philosophies…

    April 16, 2010
    • Singapore seems to be driven by a need for absolutes. We need to be able to scientifically, logically, conclusively measure things. All things. Even things like human worth. And so we grasp at things like academic results, which can be printed in clear black-and-white, to prove our cleverness and our worth. Which is not only silly and superficial, but also downright damaging to a child’s self-esteem and sense of self-respect.

      When I have free time to daydream and think I often wonder where I would want my kids to grow up (if I had kids). At first I thought New Zealand, but depending on the school the education there can be pretty horrific, and the children a little too wild. So I think maybe Singapore. After all, this is home to me, and it hasn’t actually been a BAD home, so why not? But then I think about all the comparisons and the measuring up and the judgements and the stress that I went through in school here, and I don’t think I want any children of mine to have to go through that. Sure, it teaches you discipline and gives you an excellent work ethic that will help you in life, but it can also give you esteem issues, kill creativity and initiative, and turn you into a worry-wreck.

      But I am noticing that more and more people are starting to want to speak out against elitism. The number of views this entry has had, and the number of comments, already show that in Singapore there is a hunger for discussion, openness and change. Hopefully this will signal a change in our society, and by the time it comes to the next generation, things will be much better. I have faith. :)

      April 16, 2010
  6. graceyeoh #

    Thank you for this. Being a recent polytechnic graduate myself, I am extremely upset by Mr Lee’s article. I would rage, but you, you managed to express your views in the most non-biased way possible, yet put Mr Lee in his place. I like this a lot. :)

    April 16, 2010
    • Thank you for reading!

      I get upset when I hear or see people suggesting that poly students are less than JC/university students, because I have been to poly and have many good friends in poly, and I see so clearly that this is not the case. They are just as deserving and just as hardworking as JC students (of which I also know many). I don’t judge between my poly friends and my JC friends, and I completely don’t see why any such distinctions between poly and JC should be made at all.

      I have done my fair share of raging in the past, and it took some time before I realised that people tune out raging, but it’s harder to ignore you when you make sense (or try to, anyway)!

      April 16, 2010
      • Jasmine #

        Kiki!!
        This is amazing! Love reading your replies to issues like this.

        Referring to your sentence “… why any such distinctions between poly and JC should be made at all.”
        I believe it is due to the perceptions being passed down from our grandparents (when JC are indeed a much better route than poly). Hence, some people who are still living in the 19th centuries cannot seem to bring themselves to recognize the fact that we have already progressed into the 21st century whereby such ‘historical’ thinking have to be modified. Looking at perceptions, which is the most difficult & takes the longest time to change, modifiying perceptions that are similar or same as the author’s might not happen in the near future.

        April 17, 2010
        • Thanks Jasmine! (Eh haven’t heard from you for ages, how are you doing? Graduated already?)

          The poly vs. university thing seems to be everywhere. They have a system like that in USA, in NZ, in Australia, etc. etc. That’s something we cannot control, and I wouldn’t even say that it was bad. It’s good to have different styles of teaching so people can make their choice. However, the problem lies in the perception of these two different institutions. Somehow along the way it seemed as if values got attached to these two different styles and people are now making judgements based on these fallacious values. And that’s what we should seek to rectify, although it will be a very long journey.

          April 17, 2010
  7. Yeah man, you are great! I really agree and like what you have written. Thanks for writing this article, it really makes my day.

    April 16, 2010
    • Thank you for reading, it makes my day to know that people enjoy what I write!

      April 16, 2010
  8. Keith #

    I love your final paragraph. I’m a final year student at NTU Bioengineering, i’m still stuck in this course because of 2 reasons: 1) my parents can’t afford to send me overseas and i dont blame them 2) i tried changing my major to Business at the end of Year 1, only to get rejected because i got a D for my Introduction to Economics. I got a D because I interpreted wrongly and wrote out of point for 2 questions, but my overall GPA that time was still 4.21.

    To me, university education has degenerated into who-can-memorise-and-puke-all-everything-word-for-word-campaign. I don’t mean to insult anyone, that’s my personal opinion. How many people are doing what they WANT when they graduate? If I know that this field is not something i want to do, is it more productive for me to switch courses and let me pursue my interests? Dont get me wrong, Business major is not an escape route for those who cannot cope with engineering. I’m still trying to right a mistake that was made when i was 19.

    Poly students get the skills required to survive in the relevant industry, but ‘A’ level students are stuck in an one-way street if they fail.

    Is Singapore universities up to mark? Or is it a mug of excellence where one has proven his mugging skills? we were not taught how to cross-match DNA of unknown organisms with existing public databases, but we learn how the mathematics of the cross-matching with great confusion. Some of my friends approached Invitrogen and other pharma companies in Singapore, they either want master/phd holders, or NITEC/poly graduates. Reason: we are not equipped with the relevant skills. When we feedback to our professors, they insisted that Matlab is sufficient and we should learn C++ and other stuff on our own. Attempts to take other engineering modules from other schools were rejected due to “the School’s policies”. Don’t blame us for creating so much administrative troubles, we are just trying to take modules that will lead us to fulfill our dreams.

    My experience during my university internship proved that to a certain degree, and here’s an epic conversion between my supervisor and myself:

    Supervisor: what sort of bio major are you taking when you don’t even know how to prepare agar medium?

    me: Sir, no offence, we’ve never done anything like this during lab sessions. I can show you our coursework and lab manuals.

    Supervisor: you are from university, you should know more. Why XXX (from TP) knows more than you? how much more theory-based knowledge do you have than him?

    Me: …

    A lot of times i ask myself: what on earth am i doing a degree that i know i wont enter that field?

    My answer to myself: Just prove that you got the brains to survive Singapore’s education system, it’s a different ballgame when one starts working.

    This gives me cold solace (i’m not looking for tender loving care anyways) and it works for me.

    April 16, 2010
    • I am very sorry that you find yourself in a course that you don’t quite enjoy. Because it seems so difficult for students in Singaporean universities to make a change, I can only hope that you come across something or someone who will be able to fire up a passion for bioengineering for you! :) Or perhaps sometime in the future you will be able to find a way to get back on track pursuing your dreams again! It’s never over until it’s over!

      And thank you for sharing your personal experience, it really does show the flaws in the Singaporean system; it does not help anyone to be so set in our ways and unresponsive to change and suggestions. Strange and inexplicable “school policies” don’t just exist in universities, they also exist in the polytechnics, so I guess at the end of the day everyone has his or her own gripes and complaints! What we need is to have a willingness to admit that we were wrong, and to have the courage to right that wrong. This needs to happen in the running of the institutions themselves as well as in the individual. Instead of telling you that you cannot change your mind and change your major, there should be a willingness to let you try, and to help you to succeed in whichever path you choose. At the end of the day it all comes back to the fact that in Singapore we see education as a commodity and a privilege that needs to be hard-won, and so when you don’t succeed in the way the system thinks you should you are viewed as having “wasted” a spot. But the system needs to realise that not all successes come in straight-A packages.

      April 16, 2010
    • jacq #

      my biotechnology diploma friend had the exact same experience in reverse – he did his internship in the same lab as some nus students, who watched in awe as he used a pipette, and asked him to teach them.

      but hey, they got paid more than him. :)

      April 17, 2010
  9. I totally agree.

    I dun mind elitism…as long as you don’t cross the line of arrogance, it’s actually a positive driving force for the competitive.

    However…this Lee Beng Tat just being a whiner.

    I posted comments as ‘shadowoflight’ on the actual article, please gimme your feedback.

    April 16, 2010
    • There is no problem with elitism in principle. Just like there is no problem with communism in principle. It just so happens that human beings aren’t generous and giving and compassionate enough practically carry out these principles without them getting skewed and ruined in the process.

      Oh yes, and I have also read your comment on the actual article, good points! :) I definitely think that it is wrong to assume that a JC student is more deserving of going to university just because they chose to be in JC. I mean, contrast a mediocre JC student who drifted through A Levels and miraculously managed to get through, and a poly student who worked really hard all through the diploma course, but was unable to make it through to the top 10%. Does the JC student still deserve it more?

      April 16, 2010
  10. jacq #

    this turned out to be very long…sorry…

    my biggest problem with his article is how he admits that employers want degree holders more than diploma holders, but in the same breath says that university places for diploma holders should be restricted. not only is he saying that 60-80% of singaporeans (omg, what about the poor ite students??) should be content to let people who know how to work the education system in singapore (in other words, mug) step all over them for the rest of their lives, but also…if all employers ask for degrees, and only 20% of singaporeans are allowed to pursue them, then…who’s going to work in singapore? not to mention the fact that a lot of that 20%, especially in the sciences and technical fields, spend the next 10-20 years pursuing their phds, masters, doctoral specialities or tenure, mostly overseas, and a good many leave and never return. this leaves the technically trained people, who may not be as able to write essays but are more capable when it comes to using a pipette, to fill their spaces, but oh no, they don’t have degrees so we don’t want to hire them, and they already have diplomas so they shouldn’t ask for a degree.

    to me, the real issue isn’t whether poly students’ entry to university should be restricted. i think the real issue lies in how a degree is almost a necessity to get any kind of decent job here, but the majority of the population cannot get one unless they go overseas. maybe the government should help poly students go overseas, since they won’t/can’t give them spaces in the local unis. maybe the new university will help alleviate this problem. maybe employers should readjust their expectations and not subscribe to the paper chase. i don’t know.

    when i was in jc, i did triple science/math. and i went to university and did biochemistry, so yes, actually, i did make use of what i learned in jc. however, as i didn’t actually finish my a level (i almost killed myself – not figuratively – and my parents pulled me out and sent me overseas) i didn’t have any advance credit for my jc work, and so i redid the classes. and i learned that jc level biology is harder than university level biology, in america at least. i didn’t go to a low standard school either; i went to a school that ranks higher in world education rankings than nus, and is a top school in science research.

    but even if i had gone to a less highly ranked school in america, the fact is it wouldn’t have mattered as long as i got the degree. that right there is the biggest difference between america’s education and ours. there, they truly believe that you should be allowed to study and work in something you’re passionate in, and to that end anyone who wants one can get a degree as long as you have a high school equivalency. if you can’t get into or afford a ‘proper’ 4 year college, you can go to a community college. if you do well enough there, you can even transfer to a 4 year college, or you can just stay in the community college – it’s cheaper anyway. but either way you can get a degree, locally, for cheap. this is not always a good thing, as now the americans are complaining they have too many overqualified people, but since the society has moved towards requiring degrees from just about everyone, one can’t really expect people to not go for a degree.

    unfortunately, i *didn’t* get that degree. attempting suicide turned out to be a symptom of having migraines and clinical depression, not just the stress of being in a top secondary school and jc, and frankly at that time i was in no condition to study, work or do anything, really. i sometimes think i should have gone for a short stay in an asylum somewhere before trying to go on with studying – it might have been a more productive use of my time. but of course, it would have been too outre to have a college age child not working or in school, so i pushed on til the school told me i was insane to stay and made me leave.

    so i came home and went to poly. i didn’t do very well in poly either, partly because i never got that asylum break, and partly because i was bored in year one poly and interviewed into an elite course that turned out to be harder than jc and uni put together. how elite? well…in a class of 14 girls (not counting the boys) i think only i and one other girl didn’t get into nus and ntu, and we didn’t apply anyway. it didn’t help that i’d been away from the singapore style of education for so long – i couldn’t answer questions the way the teacher liked, and i couldn’t keep my mouth shut when she talked rubbish. but it’s ok, because i got the damned diploma.

    and what do i find…? not only is it hard enough to get an interview when i have only a diploma, but every single interviewer zeroes in on the incomplete degree and ends up saying ‘oh, you’re not healthy? maybe you should take a break…’ note that my diploma is currently in high demand, but because i had depression and have migraines, even though they’re both under control, they’d rather work short handed or hire someone less qualified (my diploma is very highly specialised and we get amazing training) than hire me. maybe they think i’ll try to kill someone on the job or something. i don’t know. it’s just more of the cookie cutter idealogy – it doesn’t matter how smart or eloquent i am, as long as i don’t fit their image of a normal person, they don’t want me. many interviewers have told me they like me, but i never get called back. so it’s not enough to have the diploma; it’s not enough to ace the interview; i have to perjure myself as well.

    why didn’t i just go straight to university with my partial degree? at that time, there wasn’t a single institution in singapore that would accept the transfer credit – not nus, ntu, sim, the polytechnics…even the private universities. as long as i didn’t have an a level certificate, i couldn’t get into the universities, and as long as i didn’t complete the degree, i couldn’t use it for transfer credit. hence my boredom in year one – i’d done basic biology, chemistry and math about 5 times by then, but i still had to take the classes, even though i could teach some of them better than the teachers and ended up tutoring my friends when the teachers failed to make sense.

    somewhere in the last 3 years, nus figured out how dumb that was, and allowed transfer credit from other universities. however now i don’t have the money for a university education, my first attempt having wiped my parents’ savings and goodwill out, so i need to get a job to earn the money for it…and i can’t get a job because i don’t have a degree and do have health issues.

    i know what you’re thinking: i shouldn’t whine, i had my chance at university and i wasted it. and i agree. but what i’m complaining about here isn’t my inability, as a poly student, to get into nus or ntu. i didn’t try to apply for them – not only do i not have the money, but i’m also pretty sure i will kill myself once and for all if i went to university here. it’s not the stress so much as the hypocrisy and the pedantic nature of schooling in singapore.

    what i *am* complaining about is how there is no space for difference in this country. if you didn’t go by the traditional route, every door is closed to you. if you don’t fit the mould, you’re broken. there’s no plea bargain or case by case basis interview – not that it’d be of any use, since it’s a pervasive mindset. my skills and abilities are of no use without a piece of paper behind them. but what really gets me the most is how they *say* they look for outstanding individuals, people who are different, who may not succeed academically but are brilliant in other ways, but then make the first requirement good grades. and it kills me that they do not see the hypocrisy inherent in their statement. what this creates is simply more stress on students – not only do they have to have good grades, but they must also be ~special~ in some way, and have done community service (whether they’re interested in it or not – more hypocrisy), and have good CCA records (nevermind that most people show up at CCA meetings just to get the points) *and* ace the interview. these kids are not allrounders. they’re superhuman.

    not to mention how their selection criteria would have missed bill gates, george w bush, einstein, mozart, and the majority of the great inventors, writers and thinkers of the world. most of them had no interest in community service, or interests outside their field; many didn’t do well in school, and considering what we know today of them, i doubt many did well in interviews. but that single minded focus on what they loved, along with the spark of genius that can’t be learned, is what made them great.

    April 17, 2010
    • I love this comment, thank you so much for sharing! Your last paragraph was EXACTLY what I have been thinking to myself this evening, but haven’t had an opportunity to write down. Yes, if any one of those brilliant people had been trapped in this Singapore system it would probably have been game over for them, goodbye brilliant thoughts and amazing feats!

      It is very sad that society in Singapore can be extremely unforgiving and intolerant. My view is that because everyone has to go through the system and everyone is very stressed out and tired from their own experience through the grindstone, when they hear of someone who has done something different, or is of a different ability and perhaps did not succeed, and is looking for help, the usual first reaction is resentment, because the thought is, “Why should they get help? Why can’t they just work harder and do the work and go through it all like I did?” I can’t really say that I blame the people as well; when one is so tired and so full of irritation within oneself it can so easily overflow and get dumped on others.

      It just signals the need for the system to change, to give people some breathing space so we can then work on changing perceptions. Because this is a problem that is not going to end until we can change perception. We need to kick the habit of passing judgement so readily, and we need to get rid of the value systems we associate with poly, ITE, JC, university… all those different academic paths. We need to start seeing people as individuals with their own needs and wants and life choices, and not as just another unit in this never-ending human mill that is what the Singapore system has become. If we want to progress and develop in thought and creativity, we can no longer subscribe to this cookie-cutter factory floor sort of system.

      And so thank you for sharing, because your experiences just highlight how important and significant this change will be for so many people. It must not have been easy talking about what you have been through, so it’s very brave of you to write it on here for others to read, and I hope that in the reading of it people will be able to understand just what needs to be done and changed. :)

      April 17, 2010
      • jacq #

        wow, i feel honoured that you liked my comment so much. :D and i’m really impressed at how you respond to each and every one of us commenters, and politely and rationally at that.

        while i agree we really, really need to learn to view people as individuals, i’m not sure we will know what to do with such individuality. we have one of the worst cases of herd instinct i’ve ever seen. one of the things i hear all the time after a course of study ends is ‘oh man, i’ve got all this free time and i have absolutely no idea what to do with it!!’ we like being told what to do, and we’re at a loss without a set pattern to follow. so what needs to change is more than just the perception of one route being better than another – we need to stop being afraid to be different, and start learning what we actually like and who we are. my american friends never had a problem with off days – they filled them even fuller than regular school days, since they came around so rarely; but they could only do this because they were very aware of what they liked and what they wanted to get done.

        for us, here, we either spend our days/nights shopping, watching (bad) movies, or clubbing. all very expensive hobbies. most of my classmates went straight from poly to work, exchanging one full time job for another. the lack of activities available in singapore is a whole other problem, but somewhat related – there are no other activities because there is no demand. but this is a somewhat circular problem.

        in order for us to stop being afraid to be different, we have to stop being *penalised* for being different. from primary school on up, we are always told to be the same as everyone else, except in the case of academics. you have to behave the same, dress the same, listen to the same music, watch the same shows; in an entire school day there is no point at which the students are not treated as a student *body* – class 1A goes to PE, then science, then recess, all together as a group. at recess there’s usually barely enough time to do more than eat, but if there is, students are not allowed back into the classrooms (in my schools anyway) – they have to socialise with their classmates, who usually play one of about 5 games. i am reminded of madeleine l’engle’s book ‘a wrinkle in time’, in which the protagonists visit a planet called camazotz (sp? it’s been a while since i read it). there, everyone is basically a robot, pretty much brainwashed and under the control of a huge brain. they do set things at set times, and even bounce balls on the same beat.

        of course, the even more obvious comparison is george orwell’s ’1984′, or more contemporarily the movie ‘v for vendetta’, both stories of a tightly controlled society where to be different is to be wrong. aldous huxley’s ‘brave new world’ and the movie ‘gattaca’ talk about selecting (genetically) superior people and discounting all others. but don’t get me started on that; i can go on forever. :D

        so when i read mr lee’s letter, i was actually struck by how he was so adamant that there was only one true way to university. the view of ‘different is wrong’ is exemplified here.

        of course, to me, either a degree needs to stop being so important or singapore needs to allow more flexibility in how one gets their degree (and which ones are ‘acceptable’.)

        as others have mentioned, there is a very large percentage of each cohort set aside for foreign students. not only that, but these students are heavily subsidised by our government (in exchange for a bond, of course), which is something we definitely do not have the advantage of getting if we go to a foreign university since we’re the only country to treat our own people like second class citizens. furthermore, what a lot of people don’t seem to realise is the 10% of spaces that are set aside for poly students was created specially for them – they don’t actually take away any spaces from jc students, who have the same quota they have always had, if not more. considering jc and university is supposed to train one in research and essay skills, this seems to be a failure on their part.

        finally, it seems to me that things are already changing, whether people like mr lee like it or not. in 10 years’ time, no one will remember anything about polytechnics being inferior to jcs. when i entered my poly course, the L1R4 cutoff was 11 points. last year, it was 7. very soon, getting into my course will be just as competitive as getting into a jc, if it’s not already. not only that – in 10 years’ time, the majority of the population will only ever have known an education system where poly students could enter local unis. the entire debate will be moot. of course, then the problem will be the ites becoming overcrowded with 15-20 pointers, who will then be accused of taking away places from the truly weak students who traditionally go to ites. :)

        April 17, 2010
        • I enjoy replying to each comment because I know that when I comment on blogs I get a thrill when I get replies from the author! :) I guess it’s a “what goes around comes around” thing for me, and it seems weird to invite discussion on a blog entry but not join in by replying to comments!

          I definitely get what you mean about herd mentality, and loss of individuality and initiative. When talking about initiative in Singapore, I always refer to this experience I had in primary school:
          Early in the morning we were just hanging out in class before assembly and the principal happened to walk past and notice that our classroom was quite dirty. So she came in to tell us off and told us to pick up the rubbish. My friends all scrambled to pick up the pieces of paper and candy wrappers, but I noticed that there was a quite a lot of smaller pieces of rubbish as well, so I went to get the broom to sweep it up. But my principal glared at me and snapped, “Did I tell you to sweep? I told you to PICK IT UP!” and then made me put away the broom and join my classmates in picking up the rubbish by hand.

          I don’t think I’ve ever done anything on my own without a sense of worry and fear ever since. Even today I catch myself caught in this state of paranoia and fear that I am getting something wrong at work, and that my boss is going to lay me the smackdown, tell me I’m not worth it and fire me. Or when I was a tertiary student, even when I was in NZ, I was worried about writing essays that drew too much on my own conclusions, because I was overly neurotic about my tutors coming up to me, throwing the papers in my face and telling me that I had got it all wrong. Of course, none of these situations have come to pass (yet, anyway) and I have been praised for good work more often than I have been punished for bad, but it doesn’t stop me from getting this sense of fear, and every time I have to make a conscious effort to push it away so I can keep doing my job. This neurosis is more a hindrance than a help to me in my day-to-day life, and it is still an uphill battle for me to get to a place where I will be able to overlook my own mistakes and failings instead of dwelling on them and beating myself up.

          I don’t want to be the sort of person who runs around crying about being mistreated, or claim that all my personal problems are at the door of Singapore’s system, but I do know that no child is born worried, or afraid. Somewhere along the way in my childhood I picked up this constant worry of being not good enough, and I do believe that even if my schooling cannot take full responsibility, it should take quite a lot of it. Which is why I instinctively get quite angry when I see people who want to keep this system of judgements and conformity; I don’t want more children to have this fear instilled in them, because I know firsthand that it does not help a person’s life. I mean, one can say that perhaps this fear was what pushed me to work so hard and therefore do well at school, but at the same time I often wonder what else I could have possibly stumbled upon or achieved if only I hadn’t been so worried or scared of failure that I didn’t even try.

          April 18, 2010
    • Regarding your comments on people doing community service; getting involved in CCA and stuff.

      I personally agree to your point regarding the hypocrisy in it.

      I am a year 2 Student in SP doing Aeronautical Eng (as of Apr 10), and is very involved in community service and my CCAs.

      Personally, these outside school work involvements are just my interest and passion. I serious don’t really care much about CCA points, awards, good portfolio, etc…

      However, I am pretty sure that there are lots of people out there doing these stuff for the sake of a better portfolio for their university application or even job application.

      To me, it is really a very saddening and ironic thing to see people’s attitude on community service and CCA involvements. It somehow seems as if people were being ‘forced’ to do these voluntary things just for the sake of their own gain.

      Community service should be 100% voluntarily and be done without any thoughts of reaping any rewards out of it. The only reward that you will naturally reap from it are the experience and lessons learned from it. I suppose community service is a good way to learn more about ourselves and build better character, taken that the right attitudes on community service were being adopted.

      As of CCA involvements. Its basically something like a hobby of a person. Where people should be doing what they like and enjoy in their CCA; rather than forcing themselves to stay in their CCA just to get some leadership positions and then use these ‘achievements’ of theirs as tools to prove themselves in jobs or uni applications.

      Henceforth, I feel that these are things most overly academic orientated people often miss out when they are doing community work or stuff for their CCA clubs, groups or teams.

      I often encounter friends around me coming about telling me that they need more CCA points and were like saying that they will stop doing these stuff once they have attained certain amount of points. Such signs obviously proves one thing, these people are just doing these stuff for the sake of the points and don’t even seem to do them voluntarily out of their own passion.

      April 17, 2010
      • It’s an unfortunate side to the micro-managing of Singapore… there is no faith that students can be naturally well-rounded when left to themselves, so we have to MAKE them well-rounded by forcing CCA and community involvement on them, and to make sure they do it we tie it to the Big Carrot: grades and university admission. So we turn something positive into something almost negative because now the students are doing the right things for the wrong reasons.

        I believe that if only the whole system could ease up and students could actually get TIME to themselves instead of study-study-mug-mug all day they would have more time and energy to explore their own interests and passions, and become as well-rounded as they can be in their own way.

        April 18, 2010
  11. Thank you for writing this article. Put a smile on my face =)

    April 17, 2010
  12. JL #

    Quotas are set by MoE – so guess the tone at the top has to change before anything can happen at ground level.

    And re: polytechnics in NZ converting to full universities and awarding degrees in place of diplomas , it has happened in the UK and in Hong Kong, too. And hey, even our own NTU used to be NTI (an insitute, before it was ‘upgraded’ to university status in 1991 – not so very long ago, don’t you think? )

    April 17, 2010
    • Yes, definitely, it shows that it’s not impossible, so I don’t see why it can’t be more actively done. I know that certain courses in poly are now being affiliated to overseas universities so students can get degrees at the end of the course; I wonder why they can’t just do it more widely, and perhaps not even require that overseas help? Since we’re so proud of our independence, what is standing in the way of us turning the courses into degree courses ourselves?

      April 17, 2010
    • jacq #

      on the other hand, i think some of the polys used to offer degree courses, before they got taken away by the universities. :(

      April 17, 2010
  13. Damian #

    I’d like to first seize on this paragraph, which you also endorsed:

    “not to mention how their selection criteria would have missed bill gates, george w bush, einstein, mozart, and the majority of the great inventors, writers and thinkers of the world. most of them had no interest in community service, or interests outside their field; many didn’t do well in school, and considering what we know today of them, i doubt many did well in interviews. but that single minded focus on what they loved, along with the spark of genius that can’t be learned, is what made them great.”

    I read this comment, and thought to myself: “PRECISELY”. These people might not have experienced the most academic excellence, but at the same time it was their genius that carried them through and ensured success. If one is outstanding in ability, it is unlikely that you would be passed over. All the comments and the original post itself seem to be decrying how, for some reason, no matter how outstanding you are as a poly student, you will be overlooked. I would say that this amounts to crying wolf.

    It is true that the Singapore system is unforgiving, but that is precisely what is being rewarded in this system: good decision making. One might raise a ruckus about there being a 10% admissions quota for poly students but this in no way addresses the fact that the rest of the students (which do not form 90% since one has to account for international students) who come from JC will leave school with nothing more than an A Level certificate. This is worse than a Diploma that poly students graduate with. This makes a poly student immediately employable should he choose to leave school at this point. The decision making at this point in time is clear: go to poly or JC depending on what you see the endpoint as for yourself. Many poly students make the decision to go to poly already knowing that the status quo is as such. Many others also end up there because their results do not qualify them for JC, although this is an issue nicely skirted by everyone so far.

    This post by Lee Beng Tat is admittedly foolish in that it chooses to point out the insignificant facts of the matter, for instance the increased expenditure by the Government on polytechnic education. For the record, I would also be on your side with regards to the transport fees: as a commuter on public transport, how does you being JC or poly student make any difference to SBS? On other matters, I would have to disagree. This has degenerated into an argument where poly students are quick to defend themselves and people who disagree are afraid to assert their positions for fear of public backlash and appearing too elitist. Where is the debate if your opponents cannot even respond for fear of reprise?

    If there’s one thing that is regrettable about Singapore, it is the fact that our elitist roots are so deeply entrenched and yet a ‘public outcry’ occurs in reaction to something like this. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

    You say poly students work hard too, I’d say JC students work hard too. It is difficult to settle down on an ‘alternative’ path of success because the ideas of success here are limited. This is true. But it is no more a limited concept for poly students than for JC students. If we are bound by these limitations, why should you be too good for them? If we find that the way of life here is such that if you don’t graduate with a professional degree, you will not be accorded the same respect, why should you insist that it is inappropriate to foist these standards on you when it is precisely that: a standard for one and all.

    It is true that more and more students who do well choose to go to poly. This does not change the fact that the average student, when faced with the choice between JC and poly, will tend to pick JC. This was a point fleshed out in some of the comments as well. This indicates that the academic quality of students in both institutions, is tipped in the favour of JC at that point in time. Assuming that henceforth, these students work equally hard, admissions into university is just a way of patting the JC students back and telling him ‘thanks for working hard all the way’.

    Finally, you mention that education is a basic right. This is true. I don’t think anybody here would disagree with that, regardless of which camp you are in. However, what you are asserting is that education in all its forms should be a basic right.

    I CRY BOLLOCKS. BIG, FAT, UGLY BOLLOCKS. YES, IT NEEDS TO BE THAT GRAPHIC.

    That’s like saying that Evian or Perrier should be a basic right, when last I recall, clean drinking water is sufficient. If you worked hard in tailoring yourself to the best of your abilities to match the system available to you, why should you be punished just to satisfy the masses? Imagine two players, one proficient in badminton and the other in diving. They play in a badminton match. Naturally we would expect the former player to win. It is true that the diver was probably disadvantaged from the start based on his choice of sport, which did not fit the game he was being immersed in. This should not blind you to the fact that the badminton player himself should not be punished. What to do with each player is a seperate enquiry. Similary, don’t embroil JC students in this mess because nothing they have done as individuals have directly caused the lack of admissions for poly students.

    The simple solution is this: if you want success, excel. The JC students are not exempt from this principle either, and if you do not maintain a standard, you will not be humoured. How many of know of people who had good starts in elite secondary schools and yet ended up falling astray? This system might not be the best, but it is fair. It judges your every step in every similar way.

    April 17, 2010
    • Thank you for commenting, it’s great to have more views on this issue!

      I don’t think that all poly students are overlooked just because they are poly students, no matter how outstanding they are. However, at the moment many poly students do find themselves having to deal with pre-judgements and perceptions that are actually unnecessary and inaccurate. And on top of that, there is no need for a story like the one Lee Beng Tat wrote, which just seems to reinforce all these judgements and perceptions that many people are working hard to dispel.

      I also have no trouble admitting that there are many students who go to poly because they did not have good enough grades to get into JC. Yes, that is certainly true. But these students might not have been suited to the book-based, theory-based education, and might therefore do much better in poly. They might also have been late bloomers, and their time in poly could help them gain more interest in their subject and fire up their motivation and passion to go further and get into university. Therefore, after the initial entry process, I see no difference between poly students who are there by choice and poly students who are there because they could not get into JC… to me, the game is changed once you get out of high school, and from then on you have a fresh slate to start again.

      Yes, I do understand that no matter what a poly student is employable upon graduation, while JC students are not. I do understand that since this is the case, a JC student’s need to go to university can be said to be more urgent. However, what I am arguing for here is not an “either-or” situation. I am not advocating for poly students to get spaces in universities at the expense of JC students. At the end of the day, I see this not as a “poly vs JC student” battle… no one is out to take anything away from JC students. I am also not saying that poly students work harder than JC students; I know how hard JC students work. Many of my friends were in JC and are now in university, and I am happy for them because I know how hard they worked and that they have earned their place in university. Again, it is not an “either-or” situation. Just because I say a poly student works hard doesn’t mean that I am implying JC students work less hard. This is not a tug-of-war. I do understand that there are these limitations, and that these limitations are imposed on JC students as well as poly students. Yes, JC students aren’t exactly having it any easier, and poly students are certainly not “too good” for the limitations. So my problem is not with the JC students, but with the limitations. I do insist that it is inappropriate for these standards to be foisted not only on poly students, but on everyone.

      And yes, this is all based on my belief that education in all its forms is a basic right. Your analogy of “Evian/Perrier vs clean drinking water” seems to me to be flawed when applied to a person and education. That would be like telling a person that “yes, you have a right to education, but only until primary school level (the “clean drinking water” of education). But what’s that? You want more? Aiyah, why you must be so greedy, want university education (the “Evian” of education), just be happy with the basic lah!” This also seems to go against Singapore’s encouragement for “lifelong learning”. How can the learning be lifelong if we do not see that education in all forms is a basic right? So are we saying that there is lifelong learning, but only learning of primary/secondary school stuff over and over again? (I understand that this is probably not what you are going to argue because it is just ludicrous, but I just wanted to show how contradictory this can get.) If a person has the motivation and the desire to enter a university to pursue a subject he/she is interested in, it seems to be going against our own interests to say “Sorry, you can’t, because of _____”. Surely it is in our interest to have people who are studying and being trained in fields that they are passionate about, so that in the future we will have a motivated and committed workforce, and increased productivity, Singapore’s Holy Grail of Economic Growth?

      I have no quarrel with the “if you want success, excel” solution. However, I find that not only is the system not the best, it is not conducive to understanding, tolerance and cooperation. The fact that so many people have expressed dissatisfaction and that there is such a public outcry against elitism only serves to show us that the system has built up a lot of resentment and anger and disappointment. The festering of these emotions will do us no good, now or in the future. Which is why my argument is that we need to strive to not only change the system, but also to change perceptions. I’m not saying it’s easy, and I’m not saying that it will happen overnight, but it is something we should be willing to work towards. Education should be a positive thing, a tool for the betterment of our lives, and not some sort of war where everything gained is at the expense of something else.

      April 17, 2010
    • jacq #

      you make a great point about my paragraph, about how these people were geniuses, and hence would have succeeded no matter what. but i do believe that such people would definitely be passed over in singapore. would you vote for a president who failed out of university? (though i have to agree he certainly wasn’t the best president…) would you pay attention to an invention from someone who didn’t graduate secondary school? would you care about a piano prodigy who struggles through years of science classes because her parents are afraid (for good reason) that she couldn’t make a living with her piano skills? in fact, i have several stories to tell about that last one. i have known three extremely good singaporean pianists in my life. i don’t dare call them prodigies, because i don’t think my judgement is that good. but i know talent when i see it.

      one of them is now extremely well known in singapore – but when interviewed, one of the remarks that invariably comes up is how she not only is a piano prodigy, but she also did well at psles and is doing well in school. if she didn’t do well at school, she would probably still be able to get into any school she wanted on the basis of her name and talent. but why should she have to take time away from her piano to do regular school at all? she’s already an acknowledged young talent; she should be working on technique and composing and creating a name for herself in the music world, not spending time on history and math. yes, it’ll make her more well-rounded, but like i said, geniuses are not meant to be well-rounded. part of their genius is their single mindedness.

      setting that aside, i would also like to point out that she did not become famous purely through merit. her parents, who are extremely wealthy, bought her a charity concert. the reviews of that concert were more about the charity part of it than the concert itself. basically she only became noticed because her parents threw copious amounts of money around in very smart ways. for less affluent people, affording a decent piano can be difficult, much less sponsoring an entire concert to show off your child’s skill.

      the other two pianists i know are, in my opinion, actually better than this famous pianist – one in expression, and the other in sheer talent. however, neither is going to pursue a career in performance piano partly because everyone tells them – and they know themselves – they’re insane not to have a backup plan. neither of them are famous, even though having heard all three play, i think the last one is the one who should most be honoured with the title of prodigy. he didn’t even have his own piano at home til last year, but he managed to pass his grade 8 exam on the first try after years of not practicing, jumping from grade 3 in a year, practicing on whatever piano he could find, during whatever time he could steal away from poly classes. and he plays better and with much more passion than either of the other two. but he’ll never be acknowledged in singapore, unlike the first girl, because his family can’t even afford to send him to a conservatory overseas.

      so no. i believe quite firmly that even if you’re outstanding in a particular field, here in singapore, you will still be passed over, unless you have the money or connections to stand out. otherwise, you will just be seen as a freak who cannot fit in and is obsessed with some weird hobby, and will be forced to be ‘all-rounded’ just like everyone else. and how many people have a passion and talent for one thing and are still excellent at everything else – social skills, academics? not many. (though i would argue that the second pianist, that i didn’t talk about, is one of them :) she’s one of those superhuman people who succeed spectacularly at everything she tries.)

      the other thing about your comment i would like to note is how you say the system rewards good decision making. how, in any way, is that meritocratic? it’s back to the problem of conformity. not only that, but since there is a significant percentage of a level students who end up not being able to get into a local university and having to either work with an a level certificate, go to poly, or go overseas on their parents’ money, i would say that going to a levels on the off chance that you are able to get into nus/ntu/smu is actually less of a good decision than going to poly, which is more of a ‘safe’ route. so the decision they are being rewarded for here is not so much a ‘good’ one, but the ‘correct’ or ‘approved’ one. of course, this doesn’t take into consideration those students who are practically guaranteed an overseas scholarship before they even enter jc, they’re that smart – i’m talking about the regular run of the mill jc student, especially those who can’t get into the ‘good’ jcs.

      finally, i am very firmly of the belief that singapore schools are not actually interested in who excels so much as who can work the system. the ones who can memorise facts and recite them verbatim (and then promptly forget them); the ones who study every single model answer; the ones who value grades over correct answers – those are the ones who do well in the system. it’s true that some students don’t excel, but this has nothing to do with how hard they studied. in fact, sometimes they study even harder than the top students. sometimes the top students go to them when they have questions, because these mediocre students actually understand the work and can explain it to the top students. i was one of these – no matter what class i’m in, i’m never a top scorer – except in america; but when my classmates don’t understand something, they usually come to me. they rarely come to me at first, since i don’t have the grades to support my knowledge, but after a bit they realise that i understand and can explain everything they don’t.

      of course, there are many top students i have known who combine knowledge with understanding, more power to them. :) but the fact remains that i find more intelligent people in the middle and bottom of a singaporean class than at the top.

      so the question we have to ask ourselves is: why do we even want to enter a local uni at all, when it is so clear that local education does not prize our intelligence, and we so obviously will not do well there? which is why i seriously think we need something like the community colleges of america, where you can get a degree for local student prices – it won’t be as recognised as a ‘proper’ uni degree, but it’s good enough to work with, and people who don’t excel at book smarts can go there. or we can get help going overseas, since we’re not wanted here, as mr lee made clear.

      April 18, 2010
  14. Jasmine #

    Kiki, to help answer some of your questions,

    “… why not allow polytechnics the right to award degrees?”
    In fact, NP is currently offering 3 overseas degrees under Chapman Uni, Newcastle Uni & Wheelock College. All 3 are specilized institutions in their field of study.

    April 17, 2010
    • I think SP is also offering a joint programme with Massey Uni… so it just shows that this isn’t impossible! Hopefully one day it could be done more widely, and perhaps even without the need of overseas institutions to make it valid.

      April 17, 2010
      • Keith #

        i don’t want to be critical, but i’ve something to point out: government agencies always state this in their job ads, regardless of the seniority: 1) Good degree from reputable universities.

        If i graduated from Massey Uni via SP with First Class Honours, am I eligible?

        If i’m eligible, how come my friends with RMIT’s Bachelor’s with Distinctions from SIM got rejected flat down during one of the career fairs at Suntec City? So, can i infer that reputable universities = Universities in Singapore, or those prestigious universities such as Harvard, MIT, LSE and Imperial College?

        April 17, 2010
        • Wow. That’s really dumb. And illogical. In that same vein I think my First Class Bachelor of Arts (Hons) would also get rejected because it’s from New Zealand, not some Ivy League in USA.

          This reminds me of an job ad I saw in the Classified once, advertising for a salesgirl at some gift shop, and it said “A Levels from top junior college get priority”. For a salesgirl at a gift shop?!

          It’s just the sort of unnecessary elitism that we need to work to eradicate.

          April 17, 2010
        • jacq #

          there is a list of universities that are accepted for working in singapore. it’s not a very long list (about a page?), and the majority are american universities.

          if you have a medical degree, the list of universities/medical schools from which your MD is accepted to work as a doctor in singapore is even shorter.

          the best one i’ve ever heard was how in order to do forensic science, you have to have a degree from nus, but nus doesn’t offer forensic science. they told a friend of mine that she could do the forensic science degree in australia, with an approved university, but when she came back and applied for a job with hsa, they told her her forensic science degree was not acceptable because it wasn’t from singapore. she ended up working as a microbiologist in a hospital which she’s fine with, but it’s stupid that she’s highly qualified in a very specific area that has vacancies, but they don’t want her because she has a foreign degree. and it’s not like her degree is from some random uni, since they approved it beforehand. and since nus doesn’t offer the degree (or didn’t then, this story was told to me a few years ago), i’ve no idea where they think they’re going to get workers. or maybe they’re willing to accept life science degree holders from nus even though they’re not specifically trained in forensics, over the australian degree holder who *was* specifically trained in forensics. huh?

          April 17, 2010
          • the best one i’ve ever heard was how in order to do forensic science, you have to have a degree from nus, but nus doesn’t offer forensic science.

            That deserves to be on FailBlog or something.

            I don’t get how they can do this and still harp on about “increasing productivity”. Turning away a well-trained forensic scientist just because of where her degree came from is just shooting themselves in the foot. Since the university is already accredited and approved, and not some dodgy weird unheard-of institution in the middle of the Caribbean or something, then why can she not be accepted? It’s just dumb.

            There is also a very highly-qualified sexologist in Singapore, only she can’t work for any company (except her own) because no one in Singapore recognises her qualifications, or that there is such a thing as sexology at all.

            April 17, 2010
  15. Stephii #

    Hi Kirsten,

    Great read! So glad you wrote a response. So often we feel agitated but, not often enough, formulate a response like that. Good on you! :)

    I went to JC, then decided to go to Temasek Poly AFTER JC (Media Design), though I qualified for university. I studied for 1.5 years there, then left to go overseas for a degree. Fortunately, I had financial support from my parents for this. I’ve now completed my MA, and am now doing my PhD.

    I think it is definitely BOLLOCKS to suggest that the system BLOCKS out opportunities, particularly, as you have already mentioned, we are meant to be a ‘meritocracy’ (what a bold-faced lie!). Why should anything be a destined ‘end-point’? Where would we be without options and opportunities? The writer is speaking from a fearful place.

    Technical, practical skills are grossly under-valued in our society, that’s why we still use archaic terms like ‘unskilled’ or ‘low-skilled’ workers. That drives me batty – as if any work could require zero skill?!

    My classmates from Poly are doing well – a bright, talented and extremely gifted bunch. A part of me wishes I could have stuck on a bit longer, brushed up on my skills there (video production, photography, web design). Whatever I learned in JC? OUT THE WINDOW!

    April 17, 2010
    • To block out opportunities for anyone is to work against our own interests. Unfortunately the perceptions in society aren’t doing any favours either. :(

      April 17, 2010
  16. Leong Hean Hong #

    Good points! Admission to university should be based on candidate’s capability, not should not be determined by what type of school he/she attended, or how much government spent on him/her. Do we want to build elite groups, where they gets all the priorities?

    April 19, 2010
    • If Singapore wants to call itself a meritocracy, then they have to be prepared to put their money where their mouth is!

      April 19, 2010
  17. Clearly, the subsidized fees of tertiary education is creating the distortion here. That is the main problem of using the current form of subsidy, instead of a voucher system.

    The main reason poly graduates are complaining is because you only pay about 25% of the fees if you enrol in a local university instead of private universities.

    Thus, ultimately, poly grads are asking for more subsidy for education, not necessarily a desire for more education.

    How about this, if poly education costs more than a JC education by say, $X, would poly graduates be willing to pay university fees $X higher than what a JC entrant would pay?

    You still save on the airfare and other costs of an overseas university education.

    April 19, 2010
    • Actually, I’m not sure I would say that was the issue here. I don’t think poly students are asking for equal opportunity to go to local universities because they want to save money. They are asking for equal opportunity to go to local universities because they want the chance to GO to university.

      By framing it as an issue of subsidy we are assuming that the default position for a poly graduate who wants to get a degree is to go overseas, and that they are unhappy about this because then they have to spend more money. While it is true that local universities would allow them to save a lot more money, I don’t think that is really the main issue in the debate here. The way I see it, the main issue is the stigma that poly students have to overcome when they want to enter a local university. Why should we assume that the default choice for a poly graduate would be to go overseas? We do not assume that JC students should go overseas by default, so why the distinct difference in perception and treatment? And why should poly students have to pay higher fees than JC students for local universities, just because they are poly students? The persistent effort to draw the line between JC and poly is the issue that many people are protesting.

      Perhaps the solution of making poly graduates pay more university fees would placate JC students, but I’m not sure that I would say it would solve the problem.

      April 20, 2010
      • They are asking for equal opportunity to go to local universities because they want the chance to GO to university
        ======

        I want the chance to go to the moon on a rocket trip, a chance to go to Europe, and so on and so forth.

        The reason why I do not is because the actual cost of going, if I am paying the full cost, is higher than my expected benefits.

        But if someone offers to subsidize the cost, then I would gladly go. I might then go even if I perceive the benefits of going is low.

        Can you now see why a subsidy would distort my decision making process?

        April 20, 2010
  18. Very well written. And I’m a polytechnic lecturer :)

    April 20, 2010
  19. mc #

    Kudos! Well done! Your thoughts ought to get published in mainstream traditional media to reach more readers…

    April 20, 2010
    • Thank you! Unfortunately, I think if it were to be in mainstream media it would probably have to be toned down and edited until it the message is lost. Such is our mainstream media, it seems. I enjoy blogging because then I don’t have to answer to anyone about my opinions except myself.

      April 20, 2010
  20. sun #

    Personally I think Poly students should be given equal opportunity to Uni..

    To me, it really depends on the area and field that you wanted to pursue for your career. If you want to be an Engineer, Designer, Media Professional, etc, Poly-Uni path may be more appropriate. And if you want to be a Doctor, Lawyer, Academic and Admin related professional, then “A”-Uni may be more appropriate.

    But I think many (altho not all) Poly student already know what they want for their career and have chosen the area of speciality base on their choices of preference. Upon graduated with a Diploma, they are equiped with good hands on skills and knowledge, see no reason why Uni just accept only 10% of these students.

    Whereas, for “A” level students, many have may not have decided the direction and the field that they wanted to pursue for their career, so taking the “A” level – Uni path may seems visible.

    Generally, I think students who choose “A” level – Uni path, are people looking for a Degree, whereas Poly-Uni path are people pursuing beyond a Degree, but also a career of their area of interest.

    I stongly think the local Uni and maybe MOE should reveal the policy and have 50/50 chances for “A” level and Diploma Grad getting in to a local Uni.

    To add on, I think that the Ministry and other organisation should not discriminate or degrade any foreign Degree or even Part-time / Distant Learning Degree, especially working adults who pursued their Education later in life, not forgetting that they may have tonnes of working experiences under their belt.

    April 20, 2010
    • Great points! It is definitely more about your life choices than it being a measurement of status or standard.

      April 20, 2010
  21. Joyce #

    yes, i totally agree!!!
    my o level results were good enough for me to go to good JCs (exlcuding the top 3 though. haha).
    however, i chose to go poly (though i regretted for not being about to wear JC uniforms. lol) Now, same as you, im studying overseas!

    at least poly really prepare us for the real world and the uni. i dont think the JC people can do as well as us! (give us a pat on the back) they are still leaving in their protected world, thinking the world is so perfect and future so bright, the only thing in their life will be A Levels. of course, i agree that if one wishes to enter local uni, JC will be the choice.

    Not all people are as lucky as us, able to afford to go overseas after graduating from poly. not that their results were not good, but just because of the limited vacancies for poly students in local uni! im sure if more opportunities were given, the poly students can do better than the JC students in uni.

    it is really disappointing to see how JC people look down on poly people. if 2 18 years old students (1 from poly and 1 from jc) were asked to make a living now, who will survive? i believe it will be the poly students. we should not look down on ourselves!

    seeing my JC friends’ everyday life and us who graduate from poly and studying overseas, i can only say that they are missing out a lot!! Our way of thinking is more matured than them and can handle situations better as well. so, what’s so bad about being a poly student? i personally feel that we actually DO gain more benefits than the ones from JC.

    April 20, 2010
    • Certainly the experience from poly and JC are very different. I think JC prepares you to be an adult, poly assumes you already are. At the end of the day it all comes down to your own personality and your goals.

      April 20, 2010
  22. kenzc #

    I really think the Singapore education system is all about quotas and the rat race.

    I might be whining here but as a year 1 student in one of the local universities I had already been warned about the “bell curve grading” that can really help you or “kill” you. Like many others, I was never a fan of it. Because it only means that your grades are merely an indication of your position in the competition, and not your true capabilities. And I do know of some modules that have a QUOTA (!!) of the maximum percentage of the cohort who can get As (like, 5%? 10%? no one really knows though). Firstly I have to admit, after being in the local education system for so long, it made me feel like all I do in school is to ultimately get as many As as possible (when, ironically, I have not gotten any As in university so far). Secondly, I firmly believe that as long as a person who has scored well enough (given a fair assessment) should deserve a certain grade. I mean, if the test/exam is of a good standard, one person gets 85% for an exam which “really” tests how much one person knows for that class, then he/she most probably deserves an A. But NO, this is not the case – you see, regardless of the standard of the paper, if 80% of the cohort scored 90% or above, then the one who scored 85% gets a mere C grade?? only because they got more marks?

    And one flaw in this is that the exam setters do not know the difficulty level of their own paper and they are relying on the mark distribution to show the results (oh come one…), and another flaw is due to the fact that even if the coordinator for the class does not wish to moderate, the vice-dean will still step in and insist on the moderation. Why? Ultimately, they still want to maintain their ranking (which is somewhere in the top 30 in the world), and they want to show that the ones who get the good grades out of this university are really the cream of the crop. At the expense of those who might have merely scored slightly worse, but RANKED much lower in the cohort?

    A really good university doesn’t even care about all these: I’ve heard of teachers in those universities where none of its students are up to standard – they failed the entire cohort. Whereas if it happens here, the ones who screwed up the least will still get the A!

    After my A Levels I told myself that this is the end of the paper chase (because I have to admit that I so much time on studies I lost touch with a lot of things – and no, General Paper doesn’t help) and I try to really enjoy university life (the other experiences) as much as possible, but now I realise that as long as I stay in this education system for the next 30 years (hurr hurr), even if I enjoy university life in other ways, the paper chase is still (a huge) part and parcel of it.

    I guess the biggest challenge now is to really change the mindset of parents. I know some of them deep down, still want their children to go for a “better” job over one that their children have the real passion in.

    April 22, 2010
    • Yes, I definitely do not understand of this bell curve moderation stuff. Unfortunately once again it only promotes elitism, and not meritocracy.

      One of the first things a tutor said to my class in Vic Uni in Wellington is that, “This is not a competition between classmates. No one’s success is going to take away from anyone else. Ideally I would like every single person to get As, and if your work is good enough, that can happen. No one can take away your As if you have the work to show that you deserve this grade.”

      How I wish this could happen in Singapore! But because they are obsessed with “cream of the crop” they have skewed education from being something positive and enjoyable to something stressful and hard-won. It as if all the students have been tossed into the gladiator arena, and have to rip each other apart to see who is the last one standing. How is this productive? How is it GOOD for the system to crush the spirits of many so a few can look good?

      April 22, 2010
    • jacq #

      when i went to university overseas, most of my classes were based on grade alone, and most of the time you very easily got an A or a B as long as you listened in class and did the readings. you didn’t even really have to study a lot as long as you understood the concepts (for the lower level classes) because they wouldn’t ask you things like the number of carbons in estrogen, for example (which was a question on my poly paper.) whereas here i don’t have to understand the concepts as long as i can memorise every single word on each slide. but anyway, i digress.

      i was only ever in one class that was moderated, overseas. this was kind of surprising to me since i had become so used to the absolute grade system, but it was a ‘gateway’ course – only students who got As and Bs in this course would be allowed to take the major. apparently huge numbers of students want to major in psychology, to the point that they had to impose this entry requirement just to make the class sizes reasonable. it was the only major in the university that had an entry requirement at all – and music, which had an audition i think. everything else, as long as you got in the uni, you could declare a major in anything you wanted.

      the class was a psychology statistics course, so it was difficult to begin with, especially when taken as a freshman. but my point is, that was the one time i saw an actual use for moderating a class and assigning grades according to a bell curve. and i thought to myself: “oh, so that’s what it’s really used for!” moderation in singapore had always been confusing to me – the teachers would set an exam that would result in the highest grade being 50% and the lowest 20%, and then moderate it so the passing mark is 35%. wut? that just means they can make it as difficult as possible, set esoteric questions designed to trip you up, destroy your self confidence *and* make you compete with your classmates to pass. not to mention that means someone is almost guaranteed to fail, which is just….ridiculous. it doesn’t actually test how much you know, so much as how much better than your classmates you can answer questions, or maybe how much better than your classmates you can spot questions.

      April 22, 2010
  23. I don’t usually reply to posts but I will in this case, great info…I will bookmark your site. Keep up the good work!

    April 26, 2010
  24. Wow, that is one mind-opening blog article you wrote, Kirsten. You are absolutely right that university education should open to all and according to merit rather than based on whether if the person was a polytechnic student or not.

    Just because someone comes from a top junior or private college doesn’t totally mean that he or she is the best person to enter university. What matters the most is if the person can really do the job when he or she enters the workforce. So, I don’t understand why people have a problem with individuals from polytechnics. By the way, I spent my years in a polytechnic and I am darn proud of it.

    January 30, 2011
  25. Hello, i think that i noticed you visited my blog so i got here to go back the want?.I am trying to in finding things to enhance my site!I suppose its good enough to make use of a few of your concepts!!

    November 27, 2011

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. Polytechnics vs Junior Colleges: Will the debate ever end? « Want some tau huay?
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  3. The Singapore Daily » Blog Archive » Daily SG: 19 Apr 2010
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